Comments for TWiCF

Comment on TWiCF 09 – Beginning OOP for ColdFusion Developers by Mike Chandler

Mike Chandler — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 18:35:48 +0000

Hey Chung!

I completely understand what it’s like to reach the frustration point and mash together an approach that simplifies your development but doesn’t necessarily adhere to standards. My advice would be to try to keep fighting the fight and avoid that.

Let’s chat offline and see if we can apply some of this stuff to GK. I think you’re close, you just need to have that “breakthrough” moment and you’re almost there.

Comment on TWiCF 09 – Beginning OOP for ColdFusion Developers by Chung

Chung — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 18:15:03 +0000

Hey Guys! Great podcast yet again! Sorry about getting to it just now.

OOP gets a bit easier after you do it but still a ton of things to learn. I still don’t think I’m doing it right but there’s just so much conflicting information out there about what it what and what should be OOP in CF that I just said “screw it” and choose the parts I like and smashed em together.

Comment on TWiCF 09 – Beginning OOP for ColdFusion Developers by Brian O.

Brian O. — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 00:17:06 +0000

I enjoyed the podcast. Besides using the extends attribute in cfcomponent in my Application.cfcs, we have not really used OOP. Our environment consists of multiple apps as part of a web portal Intranet maintained by 3 developers, still using CF8. I see the value of OOP, especially in CF9, but the lead developer is concerned about any loss in performance even with gains in maintainability. Our server environment may be allowed to move to CF9 later this year. It would be good to discuss in a future show about how to transitionally refactor existing procedural code to OOP. I have the freedom to make incremental changes if performance is not affected significantly. We use CFCs extensively, but mainly for CRUD and as a container for functions. Our CFMs for the most part either invoke CFCs directly or via an intermediate CFM. At this time we are mainly making system improvements, but new systems occasionally pop up and are given to me. So I may have the opportunity to start a new effort using OOP at some point, but I’d prefer to test it with an existing system as a proof of concept like I have done with AJAX. All our systems have a basic need for CRUD operations and reporting needs. We are not using Flex or Flash at this time. The kinds of apps we have are 2 basic types.
1) Document repositories with meta data for which users with varying permission levels need to perform CRUD operations including searches and display of PDFs, spreadsheets and Word Docs. We use gateways and the latest CF8 AJAX and customized Ext capabilities.
2) Multiple systems that involve things like procurements, configuration management, action item tracking, issue tracking, etc. and their meta data which are manipulated again via CRUD operations including searches.

Also I’d be interested in any references you’d recommend that might help me in taking my next step. Real examples would also be great.

Comment on TWiCF 09 – Beginning OOP for ColdFusion Developers by Micky Dionisio

Micky Dionisio — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 19:18:06 +0000

@tony – np man, believe me im used to it!

Comment on TWiCF 09 – Beginning OOP for ColdFusion Developers by Mike Chandler

Mike Chandler — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 19:09:42 +0000

Tony, that’s a more than reasonable request! I’ll reach out to them. Thanks much!

Comment on TWiCF 09 – Beginning OOP for ColdFusion Developers by Tony Garcia

Tony Garcia — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 19:07:15 +0000

@Brian — Yes, I know that CFMs and CFCs compile down to java classes. But you have to run the code to see the errors, nonetheless. You can’t catch errors before running the code like you can in Java. So to me, that might as well be runtime.
But you’re right, we just have different viewpoints on the matter. It was just important to me that people are aware of the other viewpoints.

@Mike — I’ll think about it. I might feel better about it if we could maybe wait a week and also get Dan or Sean C on with me.

@Micky — man, I just realized I misspelled your name TWICE in that last post! Sorry Micky!!!

Comment on TWiCF 09 – Beginning OOP for ColdFusion Developers by Micky Dionisio

Micky Dionisio — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:58:09 +0000

@tony-

I definitely keep an open mind about anything and everything that comes my way. I get my butt handed to me on a daily basis with new ways of thinking about and approaching software development

Regarding interfaces and their “usefulness” I have some very strong opinions of it rooted in a lot of experience. Apologies if I came off a bit strong, I don’t mean to, but you have to know thats where it’s coming from. It’s the whole reasoning of suggesting to return “any” or an extremely generic type like that web-inf component type because its “flexible” is not right.

And to your point about interface techniques you’re totally right. You have three main choices of how you want to code to an “interface”. Most of the time you want to choose an actual interface construct unless you need to inherit some state which means you can use an Abstract Class. The last resort should be inheritance, bleh.

Would love to have you on man, it would be good to openly debate this topic. Bring some friends!

Nonetheless, I stand by it and encourage every single CF developer out there to utilize interfaces period, regardless of language. It will make you a much better software engineer, I promise.

Comment on TWiCF 09 – Beginning OOP for ColdFusion Developers by Mike Chandler

Mike Chandler — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:50:49 +0000

Tony, no debate is necessary. I’d just like to get a different point of view in front of the people who are listening, and in front of people like me who are still getting used to these concepts. I can assure you that it would be a respectful discussion. Give it some thought please. I think it would be hugely helpful considering we’re trying to attract open minded individuals into exploring these new concepts, and understanding all the different routes you can take.

Comment on TWiCF 09 – Beginning OOP for ColdFusion Developers by Brian Carr

Brian Carr — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:50:07 +0000

@Tony – there most definitely is a “compile step” in CF, it’s just not something you do manually. Everytime you create a CFC or a .cfm file, CF compiles that into a collection of java classes (and each time you change a file). You will also most definitely see compile time errors if CFC’s implementing interfaces don’t adhere to the stated contract. All of which aids in the proper usage of system objects and improved understanding of object behaviors. Early problem detection is much improved under these scenarios. Early detection of runtime errors is the icing on the cake.

I’ll simply end by restating that interface-based development has many, many benefits and the hybrid nature of CF means that developers can leverage those benefits very easily. We are definitely going to have to agree to disagree on this point.

Comment on TWiCF 09 – Beginning OOP for ColdFusion Developers by Tony Garcia

Tony Garcia — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:39:11 +0000

Yikes! I missed the comments about me coming on the show as I typed my last comment.
Guys — I’m flattered that you want to have me on. But I’m no OO guru and I’m not really debating your position. There’s nothing wrong with using interfaces if that’s your preference. But I also think there’s nothing wrong with NOT using them.
Besides, I think I would feel outnumbered if I came on!